by Nina
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Lotus by Heidi Santschi of Heidi Santschi Garden Design |
Did you know that a significant portion of the fourth chapter in the Yoga Sutras is an argument against Buddhism? That’s because Buddhism was already popular during the time the Yoga Sutras was composed so Patanjali was apparently feeling a bit defensive. And although there is much in common between Classical Yoga and Buddhism (which you may have noticed!), there are significant differences. The most significant of these differences is the whole premise of the yoga of the Yoga Sutras regarding what causes human suffering and what the purpose of liberation actually is.
“in Buddhism there is no autonomous atman (purusa) self that can be separated from its interdependence with prakriti. Not only is there no purusa, but clinging to notions of such an entity is a primary cause of ignorance rather than enlightenment. The two views are thus diametrically opposed—the very goal of yoga and human existence in the Yoga school is the very cause of bondage and ignorance in Buddhism.” —Edwin Bryant
I will try to explain this quote in—hopefully—simpler English. In our posts Spiritual Ignorance and Richard Rosen Clarifies the Meaning of Avidya (Ignorance) we discussed the concept of ignorance (avidya) as the cause of human suffering. The ignorance in question was specifically spiritual ignorance of the difference between the soul and the body-mind, with the soul (also called the “self” or atman) being eternal, pure, and joyful, and the body-mind (also called the “non-self”) being ephemeral, impure, and sorrowful. In Classical Yoga, understanding this difference is essential to achieving liberation. In Buddhism, however, clinging to this very idea that there is a separate soul (atman) itself the cause of bondage and ignorance. So, the whole aim of the practices described in the Yoga Sutras is, to Buddhism, based on a concept that will only perpetuate suffering and bondage.
Throughout the fourth chapter of the Yoga Sutras, Patajanjali makes several arguments directed toward the Buddhist point of view not just by saying what his yogic point of view is but also by stating pointedly what it is not:
“IV.9 Nor is the mind self-illuminating, because of its nature as the object of perception” —translated by Edwin Bryant
Here Pajanjali is arguing directly against a basic Buddhist concept by saying, no, you are wrong about the mind being self-aware. Edwin Bryant’s commentary on this sutra begins by explaining more about this particular difference between Classical Yoga and Buddhism:
“In this sutra, Patanjali rejects the position, identified by the commentators as being that of the Vainsika Buddhists, that the mind is itself self-aware or self-illuminating, svabhasa, like fire, which does not need any outside agent to illuminate itself. In this view, accordingly, there is no need to posit the existence of an outside source of awareness in the form of purusa—the mind itself is held to be self-aware, the source of awareness.” —Edwin Bryant
Bryant then goes on at some length detailing the yogic epistemological arguments about why that Buddhist point of view must be false. For a yoga nerd like me, it’s all very interesting, though a bit challenging to read. But because you’re not all yoga nerds like me—yes, I do know it—I realized some of you may feel completely overwhelmed by this or not even interested. And you might even be wondering, does it really all have to be so dry and complicated?
The problem is, according to Bryant, the only way these two differing points of view on the nature of the human mind and soul can engage in a debate about what is true and what is false is through these very types of nerdy, abstract logical arguments. Because when experienced yogis and Buddhists compare their lived experiences with meditation and liberation—which is when the answers to these questions about the human mind and soul (atman, according to yogis) actually become clear—their reported experiences don’t match up.
“After all, where Hindu yogis might claim that they or their spiritual masters have perceived the existence of the atman in the state of samadhi, Buddhist meditators might equally claim that they have perceived precisely the nonexistence of any such atman in the state ultimate to Buddhists, nirvana, each laying claim to direct perception.” —Edwin Bryant
Well, that’s pretty interesting. You can meditate all your life and achieve the state of samadhi or nirvana and the clarity you experience during that state about the essence of human nature can be the opposite of some other person’s clarity. So, in the end, all us yoga practitioners who are trying to understand the Yoga Sutras can do is either take a deep dive into some challenging philosophical arguments and see how convinced we are by them, simply take the arguments put forth in it on faith. And some sincere and knowledgeable yoga teachers I know have even just gone ahead and rejected the basic premise of the Yoga Sutras.
In fact, this post was prompted by some very interesting private email correspondence I had with an Iyengar yoga teacher who was starting to wonder whether the Yoga Sutras was outdated and who said they much preferred the work of Pema Chodron, who is a Buddhist nun. I did say to my correspondent that I knew some yoga teachers who were also Buddhists and that it is possible to be both and yoga practitioner and a Buddhist, but that it is important to understand there are some significant philosophical differences.
Now that I’ve finished reading Edwin Bryant’s The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali, I’ve learned that even in Patanjali’s time everyone was having it out about those differences!
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I must be a yoga nerd too because I appreciate reading your thoughtful research as I have similar questions and curiosity about all things yoga! Thank you!
So glad to meet a fellow yoga nerd!
A whole lot of these discussions have made me very anxious and worry that I am not 'getting it'. There are so many circular arguments. The way I have 'squared' it for myself is to see Yoga as simply a 'connection' activity- whether that is to yourself/your mind and body or to others. I teach Yoga to people with Dementia and emerging research shows the benefits over other exercise. It has felt much more 'right' for me personally to look at this through a 'neuroplasticity' type lens I found I was being caught up in the kind of arguments with myself about 'meaning' and some of the 'spiritual materialism' realm. I also really struggle with some of the abuse and patriarchal culture that abounds in yoga circles ( which you have also talked about Nina) I totally respect everyone else's experiences/views but when try to work my way through all the discussions sometimes I feel like I just felt like is this another 'club'where I am not welcome. Thank you so much Nina for all your insights I really love the blog and send everyone to it! I use the book every day for reference too. Clare
Of course you are welcome! Please just take from the blog what helps you or informs you and ignore what doesn't. We have a lot of different voices and types of information for that very reason. And in many ways, I feel like there is no way to "get it" because after years and years of study I'm still learning new things and changing my mind.
Sorry Nina I didn't mean here! I have learned so much here – I just mean the yoga 'world' can be a bit inaccessible sometimes, and it is really only here I have seen some discussions around that.
I'd love to hear more about what in particular you find inaccessible." Are you interested in writing me privately about it? If so, please do. It's an important topic and one I'd like to write even more about (or have others write about).
Dear Nina and Baxter, there are very few gurus we can call authorities in Yoga therapy within India. However they are not accessible online, mostly only in person. I have been fortunate to study under a few of them in India live the Yogic life under their guidance. Today I do my best to stay in touch with them, but geography doesn’t always permit. This is the reason why I began following both of you through this blog. Your knowledge in the field of Yoga Therapy is quite extensive. However while I love what you write on Yoga Therapy, I find it hazardous to subscribe to your views on Yoga Philosophy and Yoga spirituality, especially since they have been formed without wholesome knowledge of supporting pillars like the Samkhya philosophy and others. I hope you please forgive me for saying this, but your knowledge while extensive and helpful, is not complete. Being a Sadhaka who has spent a considerable amount of time under the gurus I am mentioning below, I am fortunate enough to know what Avidya to ignore in this blog. Unfortunately there are many others who read this blog and who would take your word as The Word and blindly follow what you share. This is why I am writing to you. I request you to please learn more about Eastern/Yogic Philosophy from the source before sharing your knowledge on this blog in this regard. Please imbibe the Yogic culture from those who live it, rather than those who have learnt it. You have quoted western ‘scholars’ who have grown up with a western mindset and have learnt to retrofit Yoga into their lives. I request you to please visit India and learn from gurus such as Hansaji (http://theyogainstitute.org/smt-hansaji-jayadeva-yogendra-a-brief-profile/). And from Dr Nagendra (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._R._Nagendra). These gurus are the source and are only two of a handful of honorable gurus you would find in your journey to India should you ever decide to really delve into Yogic Philosophy. I would also request you to please check the motives for the sources you share, such as the nytimes story on Patanjali. Should you visit the Patanjali ashram you will come across thousands of patients of Cancer, Arthritis, and numerous other diseases and handicaps who came into the ashram broken and without anything else but hope, and are walking out CURED. Many of them free of charge. Patanjali has benefitted millions of Indians directly and we are very lucky to have them as part of our lives. However the ones they haven’t benefitted too much are some MNCs like the P&Gs and Unilevers and Big Pharma…. all of whom contribute to nytimes’s financial bottom line. Anyway, I digress. Coming back, I hope you could please take this comment as constructively as it is meant and Visit India to learn more about Yoga from the people who live it, rather than from those who have learnt it. The readers of this blog who are lucky to have you as authorities in Yoga Therapy, would be very fortunate should you be able to guide them on Yoga Philosophy and Spirituality just as accurately. Namaste!!
Thanks for commenting, Zubin. I hope that you and everyone else realize that I don't consider myself an expert in yoga philosophy, but rather that I just enjoy sharing what I've learned recently or what I'm thinking about myself. That being said, if you would like to write something for us expressing your point of view, that would be very welcome! Please email me if you would like to at: nina at wanderingmind dot com
P.S. Ram Rao who writes for us regularly is from India and comes from a long line of Vedic scholars. And Jivana studied yoga philosophy with Swami Satchidananda. So our blog as a whole certainly does not reflect just the Western ideas of Baxter and Nina.
Philosophy can be useful but the proving ground is our own experience. As Krishnamurti called it – the pathless path. That's as valid as any other philosophy. I think of yoga & Buddhism as having a lot in common – the Buddha was a yogi in India. Yoga recognizes a higher power & Buddhism speaks of Original Mind & natural unconditioned mind but makes them incomprehensible with anatta/no self and dependant origination. What is Original Mind but pure awareness or the yoga witness?
Hello! I have to say that this article and the one about the chakras was incredibly interesting.
I am pretty sure that everyone I've listened to talk about the chakras and their alignment or misalignment do not know about the complexities of which they speak.
Similar notion to the difference between yoga and Buddhism.
By the way, I love Pema Chodron and Dharma talks. To me, they provide guides for living and understanding and compassion. As I have been pondering this post on these two views towards "enlightenment", what I have come to understand for myself, is that the actual practice of the asanas, brings me to a center of unlimited joy within myself, whereas when I sit in meditation, it brings me to place below the surface of conscientiousness, that is equally calm as the other is joyful. It makes me think that perhaps the two practices, while different, are equally important and work in unison with one another, rather than one superseding the other.
I would love some insight, as well on the importance, or non-importance, of being able to achieve advanced postures. Is it really necessary in order to arrive at joy or centeredness? What is the ultimate goal for trying to achieve advanced postures if nothing really happens once we arrive at the posture?
Thanks for these incredible, although definitely challenging reads.
Respectfully,
Kelley Bush
Thanks for your comment, Kelley. I think that deep inside you know the answer to your own question. But I have addressed it in the past here: http://yogaforhealthyaging.blogspot.com/2014/11/what-is-advanced-yoga-practice-rerun.html
It is very clear when I am being egoic which is a great deal of the time. However, when I am not, my shining awareness is simply obvious. I have no need to postulate any outside agency. So even though I have been taking yoga for 30 years I lean toward the Buddhist side of things. I also know that these states, once over, are only memories and only those who are currently in them may talk of them with any clarity. Of course, silence is usually the way then …I dont think it matters at all how I interpret my past experiences or intellectualise about the concepts of others, the moment is my guide for such things…